Thursday, March 27, 2008

An Intellectual Discussion on the Merits of the New Fantastic Four Series

The exchange between Lee and I was of such a high intellectual level I felt compelled to share this with you.

It started with Lee saying he can't believe I would drop Fantastic Four and still keep getting Supergirl.

I replied with the line the FF sucks and 8 reasons why I did what I did. Lee answered, I answered and on and on. For this post my remarks are in blue and Lee is in red. As you will be able to tell the intellectual underpinnings of our arguments are probably worthy of being taught in colleges world wide as they open doors to some very heady stuff.

FF still sucks less than Supergirl, but only by a razor thin margin. My point then.

Here is why your excuses are lame and why your replies are wrong. Whatever! Are not!! Are too. Are not!! R2! not NoT NOT

1) Johnny Storm as Paris Hilton. - Good idea! It's something that hasn't been done with him yet and fits into his personality. Since when, have you stopped reading comics all together. Johnny has never, ever been portrayed like a arrested development adolescent. Stop watching the movies and read the comic. It is almost as bad as deciding Reed is just a smart guy. Who stopped reading comics? Johnny started as an adolescent! How about the time he fights Spidey in the Spidey Annual? Hot rod. Playing to the girls. Exact same thing. It's consistent with Stan's vision. Totally wrong. Johnny grew up in comics, he had long term relationships and girl friends, this is the movie version and Millar's vision that super heroes would be movie stars. It is slightly retro but just like no one wants to read about a married Spiderman, no one wants to read about a mature Johnny Storm. He was just one of the things that was "changed" when Mephestio did his magic-wuzzy-whozzy that unmarried Spidey.I hear sales have tanked an Amazing since they de-married him, there goes that theory. Rumor only! The movie brought in more readers than it turned away. It's just as valid a take on him as any other one.

2) Reed does not look like Reed. - Buscema's Reed didn't look like Kirby's Reed didn't look like Perez's Reed and certainly didn't look like Simonson's Reed. New artist, new look. Get over it. Stylized versions that are still recognizable as the character is one thing (Johnny, Ben and Sue made it), recasting the character is totally different. You want the same read Manga where they control the image. New artist opens it to new look. Just because you picture Reed as more James Dean than whoever Hitch has him photo referenced as doesn't make bad. Reed is still Reed.Ultimately a question of how far removed from the character are you willing to go. Can Reed be an obese balding guy and you are still okay with that. It's not that far off. You're being picky. NOW, if you said the Thing was bad I would have agreed. He's not even close to looking real. Still don't like it - but I'd call this point a draw.

3) Hot super genius ex-girl friend that is soon to be revealed as his first wife. - IF she is first wife this is stupid. Actually, the whole super genius ex girlfriend is just stupid. Point for you.

UPDATE: You must not have read close enough. The book stated that Reed wasn't previously married. He and Genius Ex- broke up. Point taken away. It's still stupid to even imply that Reed was some sort of Lothario but that doesn't get your point back.
UPDATE: The whole story is yet to be revealed. I heard it will be said that they were married.
More rumors. It was stated that they weren't. So unless they got married in Vegas one weekend... which I don't put beyond Millar but would be super duper stupid.

4) All this super genius things being done for the nu-Earth and you can't fix old Earth. - It's called a plot! Why can't it be done? Because they're evil or something. Gotta read and find out. Comics book plots still need to at least make comic book sense this does not. Comic book sense is an oxymoron. Marvel has 600+ earths now, maybe Earth Prime doesn't allow such things to happen. It makes perfect sense. Comics still need to have an internal logic and this has lost that argument. There is enough internal argument for it to make comics sense. IF they could do all these things then the World Trust would lose control over the masses. This is a cover for a group of people to peacefully take over the world. If you believe they are altruistic in the Nu-Earth offer then it works. But, if you believe it's a ploy to take over everything with no resistance then it makes sense. And if Santa Claus is as fast as the Flash then he could deliver all the presents in one night. What in the world does Santa Claus have to do with this? Now you're just trying to confuse the matter.

5) Sue's super girl group - just way to cute - It's real. Heck every model has her own pet charity. Why wouldn't superheroes? It's a good idea. It's real is your defense, it's real; it's real stupid and does not reflect what a "super hero" would do in the real world - BECAUSE THERE AREN'T ANY! The closest thing we have to superheroes in the real world is Miracle Man by Moore. This is generic comic book U stuff. Oooohhhh how's this... it makes comic book sense! TAKE THAT!!!!Still think it is stupid. But I'll give you this point.

6) Mark Millar's liberal crap about no guns on nu-Earth - You Republican freak! You just can't deal with the world being a nicer place. You = fascist. The last person to get rid of all the guns was Hitler. You want to trust the government, go ahead. Britain doesn't allow guns? Are they wrong???? Yes they are, crime has increased since the gun ban, same in Australia. Home invasion has become more prominent (robbing while people are home) because they know people have no guns. Great idea, arm the criminals. Where do you get your facts? Crime has increased everywhere. More people = more crime. Has it increased per capita? There's no measure here. You are so wrong. DC instituted a gun ban and gun related crimes went up per capita, same in England and Australia. You live in the nanny state; I'll try and take care of myself.

7) If it turns into the world's best book it will be made into a nice hardcover that will cost less then the single issues. - You have no room for any more HC's so this is pointless. It's better than SG and costs the same. Always, always room for another hard cover. That does not surprise me. Point for me. How do you get a point for having a big bookshelf???? No points for that! Point for me. NO. No points for that!

8) Supergirl also sucks, but it is strangely addictive and will never be a cool hard cover. - It's strangely addictive because you feel dirty after reading an issue. Sheesh. Addictive = dirty? What you do at home on your own time is your business. Oh please. Fess up already you have a copy hidden under your side of the mattress. Don't pretend you don't. And what is under your mattress- no I don't want to know. OK I won't tell you what's under the mattress but I didn't see any denial on your part either! Okay I asked the Wife to wear the Supergirl costume once, but only once. One summer when the wife was really, really tan I had her dress up like Starfire from the Teen Titans. The costume was a bitch to sew but yes... yes indeed it was so worth it.

So a breaking of the fourth wall so you can see all of the brilliant and insightful debates that Lee and I (and sometimes Gwen) have that bring you our readers the insights that can only be discerned by vast intellects.

FOOTNOTE: PART 2 of the Mark Waid interview will be delayed until Sunday!


  1. As an impartial judge who's favorite run of FF was by Waid/Weiringo, and who only saw the first FF film but not the second, I say:

    Lee wins!

    And Jim, as your punishment, you must keep reading Supergirl. Harshest punishment I could think of.

  2. bjooks - Lee wins is the harshest punishment.

  3. YEAH!!! That's right! I win again!


  4. you two hurt my head...